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Thread: The Trump Presidency Discussion Thread (Non-Meme version)

  1. #1526
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    Not too happy about that part.

    It's essentially a chess move. We'll have a democrat in office next. So if the tax breaks are allowed to expire, republicans get to point fingers at the democrat president.

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    Resident Hacker LZ's Avatar
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    Assuming the tax code doesn't change again by 2027?

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    Meh, there are nicer buildings, architecurally, but that is pretty bad ass. I want to visit Dubai someday. Paulo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe View Post
    Also, does nobody talk about the fact how this plan makes the corporate tax cuts permanent but makes the ones for individuals expire over the next 10 years to pay for it? So in addition to blowing out the deficit and hurting people like me now, it eventually hurts everyone. Except corporations, because they're people now. Over the long run, everybody pays more, and the less you have, the more and sooner you pay.
    It makes sense that the bigger tax cuts are for the wealthier. They make the most and contribute the most. What doesn't make sense is RAISING taxes on lower incomes.

    So this really is a tax break for the wealthy being paid for by the lower class. I'd also like to know how much those numbers would change when you account for entitlements, write offs, tuition waivers as income, etc.

    Additionally, they are trying to reduce the health care individual mandate penalty to $0. Not eliminate it, reduce it to 0. Which is another half assed chess move to blame democrats down the road when premiums go up again due to fewer people carrying insurance.
    Last edited by Paulo; 11-17-2017 at 06:15 PM.

  4. #1529
    .08 is NOT too drunk to drive Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LZ View Post
    Assuming the tax code doesn't change again by 2027?
    Considering that other than the temp. Bush tax cuts it hasn't changed since the early 80's, and the fact that you need both houses of congress and the Presidency to change it (60 votes in the Senate for anything permanent) it's not that far fetched.
    'Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservative.'
    Your implies possession. You're = you are. To = where you're going. Too = Also. Two is more than one. If you call someone out on misuse of these, please don't spell it Grammer.

  5. #1530
    I CAN HAS CANADA! bing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe View Post
    Except corporations, because they're people now.
    people are also corporations
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lord
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  6. #1531
    Meh, there are nicer buildings, architecurally, but that is pretty bad ass. I want to visit Dubai someday. Paulo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bing View Post
    people are also corporations

  7. #1532
    .08 is NOT too drunk to drive Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulo View Post
    It makes sense that the bigger tax cuts are for the wealthier. They make the most and contribute the most. What doesn't make sense is RAISING taxes on lower incomes.

    So this really is a tax break for the wealthy being paid for by the lower class. I'd also like to know how much those numbers would change when you account for entitlements, write offs, tuition waivers as income, etc.

    Additionally, they are trying to reduce the health care individual mandate penalty to $0. Not eliminate it, reduce it to 0. Which is another half assed chess move to blame democrats down the road when premiums go up again due to fewer people carrying insurance.
    Yup, they were short on money to make this stay under the 1.7 trillion dollars they're allowed to add to the deficit so they're banking on healthy people dropping insurance and their need for subsidies. Which collapses the private health care marketplace and jacks premiums up through the roof, then they say that Obamacare doesn't work and they try to kill those. Not sure mobilizing the doctor/hospital/health insurer lobby against this with that little piece was the smartest move on their part.
    'Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservative.'
    Your implies possession. You're = you are. To = where you're going. Too = Also. Two is more than one. If you call someone out on misuse of these, please don't spell it Grammer.

  8. #1533
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulo View Post
    It makes sense that the bigger tax cuts are for the wealthier. They make the most and contribute the most. What doesn't make sense is RAISING taxes on lower incomes.

    So this really is a tax break for the wealthy being paid for by the lower class. I'd also like to know how much those numbers would change when you account for entitlements, write offs, tuition waivers as income, etc.

    Additionally, they are trying to reduce the health care individual mandate penalty to $0. Not eliminate it, reduce it to 0. Which is another half assed chess move to blame democrats down the road when premiums go up again due to fewer people carrying insurance.
    Most everyone will see a decrease in their taxes. Of course SOME people might be in situations where it will go up slightly, but the vast majority will see a cut.

  9. #1534
    .08 is NOT too drunk to drive Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boardjnky4 View Post
    Most everyone will see a decrease in their taxes. Of course SOME people might be in situations where it will go up slightly, but the vast majority will see a cut.
    For 2-8 years. Then a permanent increase.
    'Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservative.'
    Your implies possession. You're = you are. To = where you're going. Too = Also. Two is more than one. If you call someone out on misuse of these, please don't spell it Grammer.

  10. #1535
    Mr. G Q Onyx Z32's Avatar
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    I've started to read up on these bills and there is a lot I hate about them actually. Joe hit on some of those points.

    But I've gotta say, I really don't hate the idea of dropping SALT even though I might pay more (I haven't had a chance to run the digits). What it does is it moves the discussion of taxation back to the states, where again more people at more income levels contribute.

    I'm going to play devils advocate here, so this is your trigger warning for anyone who thinks I'm trying to shit on Joe below

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe View Post
    How is it fair that I pay federal tax on the money I pay in state taxes? That's not money in my pocket, it's money I'm paying other governments.
    It's fair because it's two different bundles of "stuff" you're getting from two different governments. It's not double taxation because what the state does with the money (local services, etc) and what the federal government does with the money (military, etc) are not entirely the same. Call it "different taxation".

    Democrats should love eliminating SALT because it gives the central government more revenue and that means more power, right?

    Also why is it that the states have first dibs on tax dollars anyway? If I was pro central-planner, I'd want the federal government to get first crack at taxation. Let the states go second then instead allow people to deducted their federal taxes from their state taxes. (Some states already do this.)

    ... I have $13,000 in property taxes a year and $24,000 in mortgage interest. Now I'd be paying federal tax on those. And no, I'm not wealthy, and my house in CA is all of 1200 square feet.
    Do you itemize?

    This is the thing, regardless if you view dropping SALT as double taxation or not, hardly anyone making under $100k itemizes to use SALT. Above $100k, the more money you make the more likely you are to itemize and use the SALT deduction. The higher your income the more you benefit from SALT.

    So in other words removing SALT is a tax on the rich.

    You're benefitting from low state taxes because NY and CA subsidize NC at a federal level, and we're suffering.

    Some states receive much more federal spending than they pay in federal taxes. Others are the opposite and are donor states...

    ... Delaware [donor state] gets 31 cents on the dollar for everything they pay, and Alabama [leach state] gets $2.46.
    Woah, suffering? Has Joe been red pilled?

    Again, if I was a pro central-planner I'd love this. The morally superior federal government is the arbitrator of the necessary funds to help those on public assistance, etc. It's redistribution of wealth from the rich in Delaware, California, and NY to the poor in Alabama and North Carolina. As a Democrat, don't you consider this a good thing?

    This federal spending that states receive is for federal programs. If Alabama is being a leach (my term) then change the federal program. Or better yet, remove the federal program entirely and let the state create its own version to take care of it's own people.

  11. #1536
    I CAN HAS CANADA! bing's Avatar
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    josh, who gains the most from this and what is the gain.

    i dont want to read anything, i'll just believe what you tell me
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lord
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  12. #1537
    Mr. G Q Onyx Z32's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bing View Post
    josh, who gains the most from this and what is the gain.

    i dont want to read anything, i'll just believe what you tell me
    lol, not a good idea.

    It's impossible to say in toto because we don't have a final bill. I'm only picking apart one aspect of it above because it was talked about here.

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